Oakes and Finn: Extended Comment

Katie's Post:

Quotes from Finn and Oakes

As I read the two articles for this week I tried to keep Dr. Bogad's words in mind, "can separate be equal?" I found that unlike the Brown v. Board case, where I could firmly say that separate was not equal, I could not come to a definitive answer on either side of the issue of tracking students in public schools.

Starting with Oakes, Tracking: Why Schools Need to Take Another Route, I found myself going back in forth between arguing that schools should group students into different levels to arguing that it is harmful to students to do so.
Oakes writes,

"Tracking leads to substantial differences in the day-to-day learning experiences students have at school. Moreover, the nature of these differences suggests that students who are placed in high-ability groups have access to far richer schooling experiences than other students." 

I’ll draw from my own experiences to comment on this quote. In my own school, Math, English and Science classes were broken up into high, middle, and lower level groups. When I was in honors classrooms I did much better than when I was in inclusive classrooms because the teachers spent less time on discipline, we went at a faster pace, and I was motivated to keep up with the other students. In my regular classes I was bored easily, distracted, and less challenged. While on the one hand I think it would be beneficial for previously labeled lower level students to be in classrooms with highly motivated students, I worry that it might drag the material behind for the students who are moving faster.

I enjoyed reading Finn’s experience growing up and teaching in urban Chicago schools in, Literacy with an Attitue but when he described the feelings of some of his graduate students, I must say that I had to agree with them,


"When I suggest to my hard-bitten students that poor children are not being as well educated as they could be, they are not amused. They take it as a personal attack from someone who has been living in in ivory tower for the last thirty years and they resent it—a lot"

Finn describes the only 8 years he ever spent teaching in public schools as being the wrong way to go about it (militant-like, not challenging) and then went to graduate school where he changed his perspective. But he never describes how he personally implemented his new teaching method theory. Considering how difficult these teachers in urban areas seem to have it, if he hadn’t tried these ideas on his own I probably wouldn’t listen to him either.

I think the best quote from Finn was about students in working class areas and schools systems,

"Their capacity for creativity and planing was ignored or denied. Their response was very much like that of adults in their community to work that is mechanical and routine."
I am a firm supporter in social justice opportunities for underprivileged students and I think it is horrible that teachers significantly lower their expectations and materials to those children who deserve a good education. That being said, I also think it is unfair to punish highly motivated students by giving them less attention because they somehow, “don’t need it” and this is the unfair attitude that these authors seem to suggest.

If you are interested in social justice and equitable education, I suggested looking to books by Louise Dunlap: Undoing the SilenceI met and worked with her at a teaching conference two years ago and found it to be a great experience.

I’m interested to hear what the rest of the class thought of these articles and the conference. Do you think schools school segregate based on GPA and perceived abilities of students?

My Response:

I was very interested in the points that Katie made in her blog about Finn and Oakes. I like that she brought up the line "can separate be equal" because all of the readings we have done in this class have shown some sort of separation that, in turn, prevents equity in our society. The topic that these readings focus on is the idea of tracking in schools. Separating students into different classes and levels according to their ability and performances - does that sound anything close to equal to you? 

Like Katie, I can personally relate to these thoughts on tracking and the quote that she pulled from Oakes' text: 

"Tracking leads to substantial differences in the day-to-day learning experiences students have at school. Moreover, the nature of these differences suggests that students who are placed in high-ability groups have access to far richer schooling experiences than other students." 

I experienced this happening in my own high school as well. All of the "standard", or general education, classes are split up and broken down into Honors, First Level, Second Level, and Third Level (the Third Level classes are not considered college prep classes. In other words, if a student is in this class level, he/she is not eligible to go on to College after high school). The majority of my classes were Honors classes, all except my history class, which was a level one. Switching down from an Honor's history class was my choice because I had always struggled in that subject, and when I did, I realized that there was a significant difference in the two levels. My honors classes continued to move at a much faster pace while the level one class seemed to be taken a lot less seriously by both the teacher and the students. Switching out of my honor's class was even greatly discouraged by my counselor and teachers when, honestly, it shouldn't have made a difference. 

The fact that students are getting different learning experiences depending on what level they are in schools does not promote equality. The classes students take are highly publicized which makes it really easy for false judgements to be made about those students as well as lack acceptance for them. 

As Oakes stated in his article: "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" and there is no better way to put it. Students with high academic capability will continue to be praised and receive better opportunities for education, and those who may tend to fall behind will continue to fall further and further behind and may never be able to catch up. 

I found a video in which Jeannie Oakes actually talks about why she disagrees with tracking. Dr. Robert Slavin states that teachers only use the tracking method as a convenience to them. Flexible grouping, meaning that students are not trapped in the same groups at all times, is also highly encouraged in this video.

I would like to hear about any other experiences that anyone has had in their previous schools. Do most schools have this tracking strategy in place? How do we all feel about it?